the government has been losing jobs. we can argue about the thousands here, 1,000 here, 10,000 there, the economy has been growing at 1.5 to 2%. in the 150, 160,000 range. the better argument for the future would be one where we're arguing over 250 versus 150. >> steve, you know what i find fascinating? it seems as though we just keep shaving the curve a bit when data is doing better several months ago. we were too optimistic. when data started to do reversals of late, maybe we were too pessimistic. we're in the middle zone. 162,000, it might be better than they were expecting. currently on jobses we've averaged a smidgen for the third quarter. i guess in the end the numbers give me confidence because it is a bigger part of the economy. but none of this is to write home about on the recession side. >> my perspective is i'm afraid we're falling off a cliff. the ism numbers don't tell us that. it shows that we're in a modest area and recession is not around the corner. but let's say your test is putting millions back to wo